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Entrepreneur Tim Fitzpatrick on Simplifying Your Marketing: The ROI Online Podcast Ep. 96

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Building a brand without focusing on your marketing fundamentals is like building a house without the proper foundation—a recipe for disaster.

In this episode of the ROI Online Podcast, business owner and marketing expert, Tim Fitzpatrick talks about developing and growing businesses, simplifying marketing, and implementing the right plan for your business.

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Tim is the owner of Rialto Marketing, he has 20+ years of entrepreneurial experience with a passion for developing and growing businesses and helps service businesses simplify their marketing. He does this by creating and implementing a plan to communicate the right message to the right people.

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Are you wasting money and getting no return on investments in advertising, printing flyers, or distributing business cards? You're not alone. In fact, the majority of small businesses make these same mistakes time after time without realizing what they should be doing differently to turn their fortunes around. The good news is that it doesn't have to stay this way!

Among other things, Tim and Steve discussed:

  • Tims’ backstory
  • How Rialto Marketing started
  • The importance of having a marketing plan
  • The ideal components of your marketing plan
  • Why integrate your marketing plan with your organization's overall strategy
  • The magic of one-page marketing plans
  • B2B marketing plans in general

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You can learn more about Tim here:

Follow Tim on LinkedIn

You can learn more about Rialto Marketing here:



Read the books mentioned in this podcast:

The Golden Toilet by Steve Brown


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Topics: Small Business Marketing, Podcast, Business Tips

Tim Fitzpatrick 0:00
One of the common questions that I get asked is, you know, where? Where do I? Where do I start? I don't know what to do. I'm stuck with my marketing. Where do I start?

Steve Brown 0:16
Tim Fitzpatrick! Welcome to the ROI online podcast.

Unknown Speaker 0:20

Tim Fitzpatrick 0:34
Steve, thanks for having me, man. I'm super excited to be here.

Steve Brown 0:37
Yeah, this is fun. So your company we all toe marketing? You've tell us tell us a little bit about how long you've had that company? And why in the world? Did you start it?

Tim Fitzpatrick 0:51
Why would I want to get into marketing? Yeah, it's so I started Rialto back in there was a late 20- it was early 2013. And, at the time, when I started it, I we were strictly focused on mobile applications, we were selling mobile applications into the K 12. Education space, I saw some opportunities there, one to take advantage of it. And about two to three years into it, there were some shifts in the app marketplace that got me thinking man, I need to this is not a good place to be, I need to shift. And so I shifted gears at that point, and started doing what I'm doing now, which is really offering much more comprehensive marketing services, to service-based businesses and helping them simplify marketing, so that they can grow without, without stress, right? What I find is, so many people are battling information overload. When it comes to marketing, there's so many different channels, there's different tactics, there's no shortage of gurus saying you need to be here, you need to be there. And people just don't know what to do. And when they're when they're feeling overwhelmed. They're battling that overload. They can't create a plan. And if you're going to be effective, you have to have a plan. So that's what we help people do get those, get that plan in place, and then help them implement or at least give them oversight to make sure that they've got the outside eyes to know they're doing it right.

Steve Brown 2:14
So when I was doing my research on you, I was drawn to you, you've really talked about getting your fundamentals in place. And I think this is so important, but it's, it's, it's totally overlooked. I woke up after several years into this realizing that if you don't emphasize the fundamentals, the fundamentals, then they're always assumed they're in place. But the truth is, they're not hardly ever if, if I can say never in place, and if you don't back up and get those squared away, you're just building on top of shifting sand.

Tim Fitzpatrick 2:57
I obviously agree with you. You know, it's the marketing fundamentals. They're not cool. They're not sexy. Most people don't talk about them, right? They just want to immediately jump into the water with both feet and get tactical. And the problem with that is the fundamentals lay the foundation for you to build the rest of your house from so if you skip the fundamentals, you're building a house without a foundation, which we all know, it may last for a while, but it's not going to last long term, it's not going to be effective long term. And what I find is most people who skip the fundamentals, which is a lot like you said, they waste time, and they waste money, and they have to at some point, come back to the fundamentals. It's so easy, from a marketing perspective to just treat the symptom. And there's so many people that treat the symptoms, you know, hey, I'm not generating enough leads, oh, well, you need SEO. Okay, well, that's great. But if you're spending money on SEO, and it's going back to a website that has a lousy message, there's no like clear journey or path that you're trying to leave the customer down. It's not going to work, it's not going to be effective. When we look at the fundamentals and get the fundamentals in place, what we're really doing is addressing the root cause of the problems that people are experiencing, so that then the tactics that they start to employ can work that much better. You know, the quote I love is from Michael Jordan. He said, Get the fundamentals down and the level of everything you do will rise. I don't care what the discipline is, it doesn't matter if it's marketing or shooting a basketball or hitting a baseball, the fundamentals, they don't change. They're the same today as they were 50 years ago, and they're going to be the same 50 years from now. We have to get those fundamentals in place. from a marketing standpoint for you to be effective long term.

Steve Brown 4:46
This is feels like you've read my book, but yeah, my books not original. It's just it's really emphasizing why these things are so important in this situation. To me, you know what I, when the light bulb went on for me was, I would have everyone come in and they wouldn't say a similar thing. But if you translated what they would say, generally it was, I think we needed to redo our website, and I need to do some SEO and some social media. And they would all say a version of that. But what I realized was what they're really saying, was, I'm tired of wasting my money, I have an expectation that this investment is going to pay off. I need you to help me. Yeah. But if but if we don't make that, that translation to, I want to get my fundamentals, I want to stop wasting my money, I want to get them in place, so I can build upon it, and start, then we'll get to the sexy stuff. Let's get our fundamentals in place first.

Tim Fitzpatrick 5:50
Yeah, we're it's not going to the the tactics are not going to be effective if we don't have the fundamentals in place first. A lot of people don't want to hear that. Right. And if they don't want to hear that, then they're probably not good clients for you, right? Um, you know, they have to understand why these things are so important. And, you know, fortunately, most people, I mean, when you do talk about it, and you walk them through it, they do understand it. They may not, they may still not want to want to do it, but they understand. But it's, you know, I don't know, for me, it was just there's so many people that are talking about the tactics. And I you run into this, I run into this all the time, where people are like, Oh, yeah, I tried that. I tried this, and it didn't work. And it sucks. I hate hearing that, because it's not that the tactic was the wrong tactic. It was probably the right tactic at the wrong time. Yeah, they were putting the cart before the horse. And if they had actually put those fundamentals in place first, that tactic probably would have worked very, very well.

Steve Brown 6:54
Yeah, I agree. Oftentimes, this, you know, we're talking to an entrepreneur, and then what is an entrepreneur, it's an unreasonable person. There's a quote by George Bernard Shaw that says that there's a an I'm gonna mess this up really bad. But it says most people go along with the way things are, but the unreasonable person forms the world to them. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable, man. person, right? Yeah. And so if you think what's an entrepreneur, they're, they're questioning the status quo. They're pushing against the stream. So when they come in and tell you what they're needing, they're generally impatient. They need to get there fast, they've already diagnosed themselves, but what they're lacking is someone that can they can trust that can help calm them down, get focused on the fundamentals that really feel right. Yeah, make sense, is a common truth. And then if you can get them focused on a long term strategy, then this won't be another exercise and wasted time and money.

Tim Fitzpatrick 8:06
Yeah, you know, it's so interesting, you bring that up, too, because it's, so many people come in and you start talking about they know, they feel like they know what they need. But do we go into do we walk into the doctor's office and go, Hey, am I you know, I've, I don't know, we're self-diagnosing. I mean, it's like, no, the doctor asks us questions. And he digs deeper he or she digs deeper, to really hone in on what they think the problem is, this is no different. Oftentimes, people think they know what they need from a marketing standpoint. And when we start really asking those questions and digging deeper to really understand it, we can uncover where what they really truly need, not what they think they need.

Steve Brown 8:49
Yeah. So if you give them what they asked for, without really doing it right, it's called malpractice if you're?

Tim Fitzpatrick 8:56
Yes, yeah, that's right. Well, and we're not going to have happy clients long term. You know, so acquiescing to what people believe they need, but what they don't really truly need, you're not going to do good work for those people. So, you know, they're coming to us because we know what we're doing. And we need to have the, you know, the wherewithal and the confidence to say, No, this isn't what you need. Here's why. And here's why we're recommending we do these things. And if you if you buy into that and believe that then great, we can help you. But if you don't, we're probably not a great fit.

Steve Brown 9:32
Yeah. So we're gonna get into what your fundamentals are. But I want to point out one thing if you're an entrepreneur, and we have entrepreneurs that listen to this, right and and they really are searching, they're reading, they're looking they know they need to resolve this. But the dilemma is, they're vulnerable to partnering with and an agency or a marketing person that deep down wants to do the right thing. But maybe they haven't had the time in the game enough to be able to have the confidence to tell you, Mr. or Mrs. Entrepreneur that, hey, let's slow down, let's get our fundamentals in place first, because otherwise, I'm just gonna do malpractice, like all the other experiences that you've had before. Yep. So tell us about your fundamentals.

Tim Fitzpatrick 10:26
I so the way I look at the fundamentals, I call them the marketing strategy trilogy, you've got your first you have your target market, you have to understand who you're going to serve and how you're going to serve those people. The second thing is you have to have clear, engaging messaging for that target market. And then the third part is you got to have a plan of how you're going to get that message in front of those people. That's it. I mean, that's it. This is not overly complicated, right. But so many people just they don't, they don't talk about it.

Steve Brown 11:00
And when did the light bulb go off? For you? What what was happening that triggered that? You know, I have to really define this, I have to make a diagram.

Tim Fitzpatrick 11:11
Yes. No, I'm, it's somebody somebody told me. I interviewed somebody on our podcast about a month or two ago. And prior to the interview, he said to me, he's like, look at one of my mentors said to me, he's like, Look, I don't care what the discipline is, whether it's sales or marketing or operations, he's like, Look, there's, there's like five or six pages of what truly this this discipline boils down to. And everybody's just repackaging that stuff and communicating it in a way that makes sense for them. And he's totally right. And so you know, when I got into marketing, when I shifted, and got into more comprehensive marketing, I joined the duct tape marketing consultant network with John Janssen. Are you familiar with John Janssen? Yeah, yeah, you know, he's been in small business marketing for a long time, he really popularized the idea of marketing as a system. And that's where I first got that taste. And then I was introduced to story brand. And when I was introduced the story brand, from a messaging standpoint, it just, I was like, dude, this makes perfect sense. It's easy. It's simple for people to understand. And I've always been a planner, I'm a very analytical person, I get into the weeds, and it's like, man, you gotta have a plan if you're going to be successful. And so all of these things just kind of came together. And I was like, this is how I need to communicate this to people. You know, it's, it's not new. Right? It but it's just, I've packaged it in a way that it makes sense to me that I think is very effective for people. And so that's, that's how I came. That was the light bulb for me.

Steve Brown 12:49
It's excellent. Because if you think about all of the thought leaders, you follow, they have reached this point in their journey where they sat down, and they defined a framework. Yes, model is something successful and storebrand, for example, I had the same experience when I ran into, but it's like, here is a framework whereby all of our team can follow a system and end up at the same place, more impactful, more clear. more professional.

Tim Fitzpatrick 13:24
Yeah, it won't it makes sense, right? I have a client right now, that paid good money for some in depth messaging work. And it's, it's too complicated. There's too many aspects, there's things all over the place, he can't even interpret it. And with with something like story brand, it's the elements. They're simple. We're not over complicating this. And if you're going to be effective with your marketing, you cannot overcomplicate it, somebody, um, I think I heard this from Sharon Shrivatsa. Who's he's, he's an entrepreneur, super smart guy. He said, complexity is the enemy of results. And he's totally right. When we make things complex, it just becomes so difficult to implement effectively. And to keep track of all the different moving parts. And with Storybrand and their messaging framework. It's just It's simple. I can explain it to somebody and they go oh, yeah, it's Yeah, it's exactly like my favorite movie. Cool. I totally get it. And you can walk them through it. We have to have those things in place in our marketing, for it to be effective and consistent over time.

Steve Brown 14:35
Yeah, it's that story, my framework. When I ran into it, it was so important that I wanted us to be a certified agency, not just a certified guide. Yeah. So as it turned out, we became the original agency that Storybrand certified in their their framework. And now it's like, I don't know how many guys guides there are. There's over 500 guides, and I believe there's around 25 agencies that are now certified in that framework. That's how impactful it is.

Tim Fitzpatrick 15:09
Yeah. And then there's people like me, right? I'm not certified at all. Right? I've gone through their workshops and all that stuff. And I've just, I've taken that. And I'm and I use it because it works. And it makes a ton of sense to people. So it's, yeah, it just it works. I mean, there's 1000s of people that have used it. So it's, like you mentioned before the frameworks that we need to be successful in our business, they're out there. We don't need to reinvent the wheel. No, no, we may take multiple frameworks and put them together and use them for our businesses. But the frameworks we need to be successful are there.

Steve Brown 15:45
Yeah, frameworks, I think that's an excellent theme for this conversation. So why did you pick target market? First, why is that important to you? And why do you address it first?

Tim Fitzpatrick 15:59
it when you think about your, your target market, the audience that you're going to serve you, that's where everything starts. That's why it's so important. If you don't understand who you're going to serve, and how you're going to serve those people, and really understand exactly who those people are, what are they like, you know, what are their thoughts, their feelings, the the common goals they have the problems they have the aspirations they have, if you can't get inside their head and enter the conversation that is in their mind, you can't possibly create messaging that is going to attract and engage those people. Everything from everything from marketing standpoint starts with your target market. Because if you think about it, Steve, once you understand who you're trying to attract, and you know- almost know them better than they know themselves, when it comes to what you do. You can then start to create a list of Where the hell are these people where they congregate online, where are they offline, and you can start to create a list that list is now that's that's where you can fish where the fish are, right, you're not casting out your line in the middle of the lake hoping that the fish are there, you're going to know exactly where the fish are, and where you need to go to get your message in front of those people. Everything starts from Target Market, if you skip it, you can't create good messaging, your plan is going to be ineffective, because you don't really know exactly where you need to be to get in front of the people you need to serve. So that's, that's why to me, everything starts with target market. Has to.

Steve Brown 17:36
I think there was a day that it really dawned on me. Use if you think about it, you serve, you serve whatever audience you serve mm'kay and you. So people come in, and they generally say the same thing, and you almost cut them off. I know what you need. I've done it so much. I know what you mean need, right? But if you back up and you go, Okay, so I have these folks saying a similar thing. But what why are they saying it? And then you start to reveal. They're trying to resolve a problem that makes them feel uncomfortable. And that's why they're actually risking exposure talking to you. Yeah. Okay. So it's so so important that they actually, they actually expose themselves to someone that might prescribe wrong, but there need help. And so when you think about what's the common theme in there, so I need to redo my website I need. So they're saying this, I need to make sure this investment pays off. But if you go deeper, why are they risking this right now? It's like, Look, I'm a little insecure, that if I don't get my act together in the future of Modern Marketing, I'm gonna be out of business. I'm not going to be effective, my competitors are going to go around me, I have to go through this exercise. I need someone that gets me, that understands me, and can lead me to success.

Tim Fitzpatrick 19:07
Yeah, one, I think that's a, that's a really good point. And my guess is you see this, I see it, people come to us, and they feel like they need to be in every marketing channel. You know, we're too many. And it's like, you don't have to be in every marketing channel to have a successful business. So don't, don't get overwhelmed going, Oh, my God, you know, I got to be on all these social channels, and I got to have all this content. And the list just goes on and on and on. You don't have to, to be successful. You just have to be in the right places. And, and I think as you get as you nail each of the channels that you're in, then you can start to expand but if you try to expand too soon, and you've you've stretched your capabilities, you're just not going to do anything well, so we've really got to focus based on where you're at and, and your capabilities and the budget that you have to put together a plan that's going to work for you and meet you where you're at.

Steve Brown 20:08
That's why your messaging is so important. And that's why it's number two in your, your model is that if you don't convey that, I understand you, and that you're safe here, and that we can help help you you're going to make, you're going to be successful. Regardless, I know. It may be messy, somebody is gonna have, you know, their knuckles are going to be scuffed up or whatever, but they're looking for someone who's like, Can you help me shortcut this? Cuz I'm gonna, I'm gonna bull in a china closet through this. Yeah. But how nice would it be if I had a Tim, to kind of lead me around some obstacles that I don't need to waste time hitting bumping into while I figured this out?

Tim Fitzpatrick 20:52
Yeah, it's messaging is so so important. And I don't know about you, but I haven't worked. I haven't come across a single client that has their messaging dialled in?

Steve Brown 21:03
No, I haven't.

Tim Fitzpatrick 21:07
Yeah, look, wait, you know, what the hardest part about messaging is, we, as business owners, we can't see the forest through the trees, we can't think of objectively about our business. And, you know, so one of the first places I tell people to start is to interview your existing ideal clients, they can articulate our value in what we do so well. When it comes back, when you when you have eight to 10 interviews, I like to see eight to 12 interviews. When you read through those, and you start to see the common themes come up, you're like, Oh, my God, you know, light bulb moment? How the hell did I not see that? Because you can't think objectively about your business. But when you talk to clients and get that feedback, you're like, Oh, my God, this is so clear. And then when we when we take those client interviews, and we start to go through the Storybrand framework, it becomes that much easier to make sure know that you're getting it right. You know, sometimes people come to me, and they're just starting out. And so they're like, I don't have any clients. Well, you know, what, the internet is a wonderful thing. There's so much information out there you can, you can read reviews, right? Take check out online reviews for your competitors, you can do, it's so easy to do research on Google or jump into, you know, appropriate forums or Facebook groups or LinkedIn groups. I mean, all the information you need to do research on your target market is online. And you can probably do it in an hour or two. This is not overly complicated.

Steve Brown 22:37
It's not rocket science. No. So we're, we're having a great conversation with Tim Fitzpatrick. If you're listening on Vurbl, be sure to subscribe if you're watching on YouTube, but appreciate it if you subscribe as well. So Tim is the owner of Rialto Marketing. So Tim, this is where I want to talk about the questions I get asked often, or that I hear often. And so I'd love to know what your answers are. So number one, why is a marketing plan important?

Tim Fitzpatrick 23:13
For a number of reasons, I plan, one, in the absence of a plan, everything looks like an opportunity. And you're just going to be a squirrel chasing that. And when you're doing that, you're never going to get traction plans, what they do for you is they outline what your priorities are and what you need to focus on, which helps eliminate that information overload it eliminates the distractions so that you know exactly what your marching orders are. And it keeps you focused and disciplined. And, you know, we have to implement and we have to implement well, to start seeing traction, and that's never gonna happen if you don't have a plan.

Steve Brown 23:53
Excellent. And it happens to be the third part in your your model. Yes. So the components of a marketing plan.

Tim Fitzpatrick 24:04
Yeah, I I like to keep things simple. I think too many people overcomplicate marketing plans, you know, if we had spent, you know, multiple 1000s of dollars on a year long marketing plan last January, we would have, most people would have burned it come March. So I look at marketing plans in 90-day sprints. 90 days is long enough to start seeing traction, but it's short enough where we can look at what's working what's not and start to make course corrections and we it's just a wash, rinse repeat cycle, a 90 day sprint. here's here's the components of a marketing plan. One target market, who who are who are your people, okay, who you should not have more than three ideal client types. 1-3 is what I say if you go if you have more than that it's going to become too broad and it's going to be really hard to focus At a minimum, I mean, if you have a paragraph on who you're one to three, each of your one to three ideal client types, you're better off than most people, you know demographically what, you know, where do they live? You know, what kind of jobs do they have? You know, are they married with kids, I mean, the demographics are going to change slightly, whether it's business to business or business to consumer. And then you want to have those psychographics their thoughts, their feelings, the results, they're looking for the problems, that kind of stuff that helps you get in their head and understand who they are. The reason it's in the plan is it helps keep it top of mind for you. To What's your goal, it's gonna be time bound, because there's a 90 day plan, but it needs to be specific and measurable. You know, I intend to bring on 10 new clients in the next 90 days. Okay, we have to have an idea of where we're where we're headed. Okay. Three, what's our budget? And what are our resources? budget? Do I have 500 a month to 5000 a month to invest my marketing? resources could be it? How much time do I have to invest in it? Do I have staff time for people that can invest in it? But also equally as important is what are the what are the capabilities of those people, you don't have Jenny in your office has five hours a week to spend on social media, but she has no idea what the hell Facebook even is because she hasn't been on it? Well, she's probably not going to be a good fit. So we have to make sure In this step, it just gives us an idea of what we have to work with, and what we can choose to bite off in our plan. The fourth step is what's your current marketing plan. And I realize when I say this, Steve, a lot of people don't even have a plan. Okay, but we just want to get down on paper, what we've done up to this point. And what we continue to do from a marketing standpoint, this helps gives us a baseline. My GPS can't tell me how to get to the airport until I told where I'm starting from this is no different. You can't outline what you need to do to get to where you want to go until you know where you're starting from. fifth step is what am I going to focus on in the next 90 days? This is your marching orders, this is what you're going to execute in implemental. And then the sixth is the metrics. What metrics am I going to track that are going to help give me the good indication of whether what I'm doing is working or not? When Steve, we know we both know, there's tons of vanity metrics. When it comes to marketing, we need to focus on the most important metrics that are going to help us determine whether what we're doing is working or not, if you can start to track more metrics later, but I would say one to two metrics per per marketing channel that you're working on. And just keep it simple to begin with. And then at the end of the 90 days, you look at what happened, make your corrections in your new plan and move forward.

Steve Brown 27:47
So an integrated marketing plan. What is that to you,

Tim Fitzpatrick 27:55
you know, to me, and the way most people that I've seen define it is that your it's an integrated marketing plan is one that's taking that brand message, and using it and communicating it consistently across your marketing channels. I don't typically talk about integrated marketing plans or omni channel plans. One I think it confuses people. But to being somebody that subscribes to Storybrand, with Storybrand, whatever you're doing is integrated because Storybrand, you're taking that framework and you're implementing that message everywhere. Everywhere you communicate with a prospect or client, you're using that message. I don't care whether it's marketing, sales, customer service, it's getting integrated across your company. So an integrated marketing plan happens naturally when you subscribe to Storybrand.

Steve Brown 28:46
That's excellent. So you talk about on one page marketing plan? Yes. What is that? That's so that doesn't sound like the all the six steps are in that thing.

Tim Fitzpatrick 28:58
That Well, there they are. Well, it depends on how long winded you are, right? It could be two, maybe three pages, but it's not very long. There's still those six steps. Okay. Um, so it's those six steps. I mean, it's on a single sheet of paper when it's blank. And then depending on how much you write, it may go further than that, but it's not complicated. So you've got those six steps in there. The biggest question that I get asked is, okay, this is cool. I understand this, I get it. But how do I know what to focus on for my for the next 90 days. And for people that are doing this themselves, we have some tools, I put together some free resources for your listeners so we ca-, I will give you that page. And it helps them with all these fundamentals that we're talking about. But one of the PDFs in there is what we call the marketing evolution index checklist. And it looks at the main marketing channels. And what you should be doing at Phase One, two and three. Okay, so break down into phases. And when I look at marketing channels, some people may disagree with me, but I think any tactic can be put into eight different marketing channels. The first one which is at the center, is those those fundamentals, the strategy, who's your target market? And what are you going to say to those people? What's your message, then you've got your website, you have content, you know, my doing a blog, podcast, video, whatever that may be. I have search engine optimization, which is helping me get found in search results. I got social media. I've got email marketing, I have paid advertising. So Google ads, Facebook ads, and then I've got offline marketing, networking, you know, referral partners, speaking, direct mail, those types of things, any tactic, you can pop into any one of those into one of those eight channels. So with the evolution index checklist, it just gives you a guidepost of, Hey, I'm working on my website, I'm just getting started. What things do I need to have in place for my website? In phase one? got those done? What do I work on in phase two. And so it just gives people a good framework that they can come back to and go, Okay, let me check off what I've done. And then I can look at what I haven't, and make some decisions from there about what I'm going to focus on for the next 90 days, based on what I've completed, and what my budget and my resources are. But I always tell people, if you do not understand your target market, and you do not have clear messaging, you have to start there, then you can start to get more tactical and you know, get into your website and other channels. But you got to start with the fundamentals first.

Steve Brown 31:38
Excellent. And here's the the last question I hear often. So what some b2b marketing plan? Why why is that different?

Tim Fitzpatrick 31:48
E. So when you look at B to B, and B to C, so business to business or business to consumer, I think there's I think there can be a lot of overlap there. So I don't think you can, I don't think you can say hey, every b2b plan has this and every b2c has this, because it's just not, that's not going to be the case. But I think what's really important to hone in on what you need to have in your plan, is you need to understand the customer journey or the buyers journey. And when we let me define that to make sure we're all on the same page, to me, the buyers journey is the experience that a prospect and a buyer has from the minute they think about working with the company like yours, all the way through buying and doing repeat and referral business. At duct tape marketing, they look at it as an hourglass. We're all familiar with an hourglass, and there's seven steps. At the top. It starts with no like trust, try, buy, repeat and refer. And so I think when we're looking at whether we're in b2b or b2c, we need to look at what's happening throughout that journey. What are the steps that your prospects and your buyers are taking? What are the what are their needs, and their expectations at each phase of that. And when you understand that, then you can start to look at what can I do as a business to meet those needs, meet those expectations, and help people efficiently and quickly move through the journey. So they get to that point where they want to buy, and after they buy, we can encourage them to do repeat and referral business. You know, if we generalize things with b2b and b2c, you know, in general business, the business there, the buying decision is much more logical and numbers based, right? Because they they're looking at return on investment, with business to consumer, that buying decisions tends to be a lot more emotional. You know, it's how am I feeling. With b2b content tends to be a lot more educational based. We're trying to serve build credibility and authority within our market to get them to know like, and trust us, whereas content on the b2b, b2c side tends to be think more fun and entertaining. Again, this does depend on your what you're doing. But in general, this is where they split, right? Between b2b a lot more personal relationships, right, people are doing ongoing business. b2c can be tend to be a lot more transactional. So you know, and then with b2b, you have longer sales cycles, typically, b2c tends to be shorter sales cycles. So if we take that information, and we understand the buyers journey, then we can start to look at what types of things we may want to put in our plan. But there's gonna be some crossover there. So we can't just say, hey, a b2b plan is always gonna have these five things. And b2c is always gonna have these five things. If that's not the case. I think you have to go back to the buyers journey, understand that and then you can start to look at what types of things should we or could we be doing to meet people where they're at at each phase.

Steve Brown 35:01
Excellent. Thanks, Tim. That Yeah, it's always I love hearing other people's answers. Because they're bringing a flavor from their experience, their expertise, their, their. Yeah, their time in the wars, so to speak. Right. And so always learn stuff. Thank you so much for that. Yeah. So we're talking with Tim Fitzpatrick. And if you're listening on Vurbl, be sure to subscribe or if you're watching on YouTube. Yeah, subscribe as well, that always helps us out. So, Tim, what's one question that I didn't ask that you would love to answer?

Tim Fitzpatrick 35:45
Oh, man, that's a that's a fantastic question. I would say, you know, one of the common questions that I get asked is, you know, where? Where do I, where do I start? I don't, I don't know what to do. I'm stuck with my marketing. Where do I start? This goes back to everything that we talked about today. Go back to the fundamentals, and make sure that you have those things in place, then you can start to expand from there. But I haven't run into a case where a problem that a client is currently having cannot be traced back to something with the fundamentals. Either they skipped it, they missed something, they took a wrong turn somewhere, it all comes back to that and when we can correct that the problem that they're running into corrects itself.

Steve Brown 36:46
Yeah. can always work on those. That's for sure. So Tim, tell us where folks can go download this checklist. Tell us again, the name of it, where they can get it, how they can connect with you, etc, please.

Tim Fitzpatrick 37:00
Cool, I appreciate it, Steve. So the best place to go is our website rialtomarketing.com it's R I A L T O marketing.com The go to rialtomarketing.com/the-ROI-online. I'll make sure you get that. So they got in the show notes. Those free resources are right there, guys, you don't even need to down a you don't even need to sign up to get them. Okay. There's the marketing evolution index checklist there. There's the marketing strategy trilogy, our one page 90 day marketing plan template is there. The Storybrand framework we use is there. It's all there. If you get stuck as you implement, click to get a free console button on our site. Be happy to chat with you 15 minutes to help give you some clarity there on where you should focus and help you push through those roadblocks. All the content that we produce everything, our social links, it's all on our websites the best place to go.

Steve Brown 37:53
Awesome. Tim, you made an awesome guest. I really even have enjoyed it. We're in the same area. So we kind of speak in the same geek. Yes.

Tim Fitzpatrick 38:03
Yes, absolutely. Well, I certainly appreciate the opportunity and hope your audiences is well served from the conversation.

Steve Brown 38:09
Yeah, absolutely. All right, Tim, you've been a great guest on the ROI online podcast thanks.

Tim Fitzpatrick 38:15
Thank you. Take care.

Steve Brown 38:17
All right. That's a wrap.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai